[01:57:52] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o raptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [08:57:47] so, the raptor engine got removed from SN4 and it looks like they are about to install the test thrust thingy again [08:58:19] which would make sense. They did two static fire tests, now they can crank up the pressure and see if the test did any damage [08:58:38] and they can inspect the raptor engine to see if there was any damage or excessive wear to it [14:27:20] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o raptop' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [15:14:12] Hello, I need some help with where/how to find/fix a problem I've got with a spaceplane. Every time I go to launch it, as soon as it touches the runway, it starts to spin. I've downloaded another spaceplane from KerbalX to see if it was a generalized problem, and it isn't. [15:15:22] so after you click the launch button, it is placed on the runway, and starts to spin along which axis? [15:16:20] it spins horizontally, not quite like it was connected to the ground by the front landing gear and the ass end is moving sideways. [15:16:57] is it jumping, or just rotating? [15:17:25] when I say not quite...I'm just talking positionally. it is actually just a little behind the landing gear, and it is just rotating. [15:18:06] i havent seen things like this, except with a joystick not in use and an object pressing against it [15:18:50] I don't have a joystick at all [15:19:09] and I've checked the keyboard for stuck keys [15:19:14] can be something with the wheels [15:19:20] that is why i asked if it is jumping [15:19:23] and I've checked the keyboard for stuck keys [15:19:28] oops :) [15:20:15] The wheels do seem to be shaking, but I think that is just normal flexing due to the friction with the ground as they are dragged sideways [15:20:45] it is a very small skae and mostly side to side [15:20:55] skae/shake [15:21:17] Should I try adding a second set of rear gear? [15:22:26] FtForger: can you post an image of the craft? [15:23:33] Not sure how... [15:23:50] I know how to grab a pic, just not how to post it [15:24:16] You want it in the SPH or on the runway? (when I get it figured out) [15:24:53] imgur.com is a common way of posting images if you don't have your own webspace thingy [15:25:18] what is with the news of tom cruise going to the iss for some onsite filming [15:29:01] Internation Space Scientology [15:29:11] hehehe [15:37:58] hrhr [15:38:37] Althego: let me spin this. Probably on the Boeing capsule to make the movie and some advertisment for Boeing. ;) [15:39:10] FtForger: yeah, go for imgur [15:39:54] and a pic of the craft in the SPH could be fine, but you can just upload more pictures to one post, so on the runway could be helpful, too [15:43:24] https://i.imgur.com/jfvkESX.png [15:44:28] are the main landing gears on the wing? [15:45:31] because it can be, that the jumping of the springs and the flexing of the wings together produces a slight rotation [15:45:52] and of course this creates energy, but not uncommon in ksp [15:48:03] Yes, they are on the wings. I'll try moving them to the fuse. [15:48:47] one trick i use, that i put them on the body but use the offset tool to move them on the wings, so they are on the body for the physics, but visually on the wings [15:50:22] Yep, that did the trick. Thanks. Been playing for a while but this was my first attempt at a sp... [15:53:28] good catch [15:53:35] I thought the same when I clicked on the image [15:53:41] struts could help [15:54:50] hehe. "basically all these bad guys from this evil company known as amaz... protogen" [15:55:48] also I would like to have flex _in_ the wings and not at the joints. [15:56:05] Usually the joints are the most stable parts of everything... [15:57:20] in reality wings are not glued on. they are part of the internal structure of the plane, so quite strong. as you said they flex, but because they are long, not because there is a joint there [15:58:52] well, we need a more CAD like approach to build things ;) [15:59:47] the lego approach is generally working ok, but for wings or solid boosters, not really. procedural boosters, tanks, wings would be the way to go [16:04:09] "In reality wings are not glued on" Well, not aluminum ones. Composites, however... [16:05:59] do you want some raisins to your peas to pick? ;) [16:06:14] Action: raptop holds up a pendant of pedantry [16:37:16] "Conduct gravimetric surveys of Kerbin: Record gravitational forces in spaceflight above 67,900 meters near Sector R7CS" [16:37:23] Spaceflight in the atmosphere? [16:37:57] Or does that require >70 km? [16:46:17] above in spaceflight [16:46:19] I'm not sure what happens between 67900 and 70000 m for that contract [16:46:26] nothing [16:46:37] cause you're not in spaceflight [16:46:46] "flying high" yeah, makes sense [16:46:53] technically a bug in the contract I guess [16:46:58] no [16:52:33] not a bug, just not something a human would create [16:55:46] This is not a case where computers should be more human [16:59:40] Action: darsie flew to space with a Flea: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot253.png [17:02:04] now try it with decouplers :) [17:04:43] 75.5 km [17:05:00] :) [17:26:48] 76.9 km at TWR 6. [17:35:45] 87 km with decoupler :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot255.png [17:36:01] i meant with decouplers only, without engine [17:36:09] yeah :) [17:36:26] still, I decoupled the okto at launch from the bottom of the rocket. [17:40:47] scott [17:59:15] what a monstrosity https://i.imgur.com/GQlQYqY.png [17:59:26] average [18:03:27] it even has nose cones on most boosters ;) [18:03:42] I knew someone would complain :D [18:04:18] :) I could wax about struts, too [18:04:32] where we're going we don't need struts [18:05:30] it maybe superstition, too. I like to put struts from the boosters to the main noodle [18:05:49] heaviest part does the trick usually [18:05:55] so it doesn't flex much in the engine plates or similar [18:06:00] That might have been my 'largest' ship: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot256.png [18:06:39] oh sexy [18:06:39] 1 kt [18:06:42] :) [18:06:52] orbital fuel depot. [18:06:53] the TWR isn't that bad also [18:07:02] fuel is our payload [18:07:11] the rocket I'm sending is an orbital fuel/base for Laythe [18:07:18] stull not too big by ksp standards [18:07:20] I've got 2 SSTO there and a miner on the ground [18:07:39] But I forgot to add docking ports on the sides of the SSTO so I got no idea how I'll refill those [18:08:19] klaw them [18:08:29] you can transfer fuel with claws? [18:08:33] yes [18:08:37] :o [18:08:53] Punch a hole, fill, close with a cork :). [18:09:02] hehe [18:11:06] Althego: "too big by ksp standards" starts at 1000 parts? [18:11:27] i meant its height [18:11:34] it didnt even reach the ceiling [18:11:44] and you can build above that [18:11:57] There's only a central mammoth and the boosters. [18:12:48] I tried to launch a fuel station in one go: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspts2.jpg [18:13:04] didn't work out (yet. I might return to that design later) [18:13:22] hehe those solids in the center [18:14:10] #KSPOfficial: mode change '+o purpletarget|ktns' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.esper.net [18:14:32] had to stage the radial decouplers or the boosters would slam into each other and into the fuel tanks [18:15:16] It doesn't fly well, though :) [18:15:48] wow [18:16:13] what mods are those ? [18:17:13] https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/170211-19x-stockalike-station-parts-redux-april-3rd-2020/ [18:17:48] (and https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162790-19x-hangar-extender-extended/ to remove the VAB walls) [18:18:57] I like the parts thing [18:19:22] lol. longplane is long [18:19:45] I definitely need a new computer though [18:20:01] amd 4000 seriese is around the corner [18:20:26] anything newer than my 9 year old CG will do, really [18:23:07] *sigh* if only I hadn't ordered that eSATA cable I didn't really need, I could already be playing KSP on my new toy. still have to wait until sometime next week [18:24:02] replacing my 10 year old laptop GPU with a 2080. from 72 cores to 3072 :) [18:24:36] helps somewhat, but typically the problem with huge ships in ksp is the physics [18:25:03] since the shader change i can hear fans spinning, before that the fans didnt even spin up [18:25:09] on the gpu [18:25:32] and i cant really hear the cpu fans anyway [18:25:41] aye. still, the new desktop thingy with Ryzen and stuff should be more shiny than the old laptop I use now [18:26:24] I want to be able to set the graphics knobs to 11 again! ;) [18:30:21] I'm not up to date, a nice computer would be around 1k? [18:32:14] I'd say that depends on the currency and how long you expect to use it. I haven't bought any new thing in about 10 years and spent 2k€ on a Ryzen 5, 32GB RAM and a 2080 "super" [18:32:32] I hope it will be up-to-date enough for the next 10 years or so ;) [18:32:46] ok maybe I should do the same then [18:33:36] oh, that 2k include 360€ for a 27" LED-IPS display [18:33:48] hehe 10 years? lol no [18:33:57] something x1440 WQHD [18:34:01] Althego: I can dream! [18:34:09] my CPU is 11 years! [18:34:13] and KSP still runs [18:34:23] if we are lucky this 10 years is going to be as fast paced as it was last... hmm let's se, maybe in the 90s? [18:34:33] I expect to be able to make good use of the 2080 and the display for some years, maybe replace the R5 with an R7 later on [18:39:19] To be fair, that CPU is only 2 years older than KSP [18:40:26] in any case, the reasoning was to buy the "best" GPU I can afford now. new CPUs get cheaper faster than GPUs while games tend to rely on the newest and greatest GPU features for the "full" experience [18:41:12] i cant imagine elon being serious about the 100 people to mars in starship [18:41:33] impossible to fit there 100 people in a livable area, not to mention all the food, for 6 months [18:41:45] or rather for years [18:42:43] took the RyanSpace flight to Mars, landed on Deimos [18:42:50] hehehe [18:43:21] Althego: well, maybe this is all just a test and the real starship will come afterwards? [18:43:31] at least you dont get the united airlines treatment, where they beat you and then throw you out [18:43:59] which would really need to be a bfr [19:32:20] Althego: "Payload to anywhere > 100,000 kg" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship 100 ppl = 10 t, so naively 10 t dry food per person. [19:32:47] and all water gets recycled [19:35:17] 100 t payload, so even if yo udont count the person it is 1t [19:35:33] but life support is extra weight [19:35:52] also volume is an issue too [19:35:55] oops, yeah, 0.9 t food per person. [19:36:51] I made up some chemical recycling equations which somehow turned CO2 and H2O to O2 and methane or so, the latter being used as fuel. [19:37:02] actually mass wise, if it can really take 100 t, it doesnt sound bad [19:39:04] it's easier with Kerbals. https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/blob/master/GameData/KerbalismConfig/Profiles/Default.cfg#L97 [19:44:50] Very rough estimate is 15 m3/person in starship, or about a 2.5 m cube. [19:45:47] supposedly they would need around 25 [19:46:02] 25 m3/person? [19:46:06] yes [19:46:12] Why? [19:46:12] i could live in such a cube [19:46:16] if there is a computer :) [19:46:35] ugh, that laaag ;) [19:46:43] because they go crazy in the small space [19:46:50] Perhaps you'd get an ISS size quarter and some shared living/social space. [19:47:03] half a year is a long time, i could play through all the games i couldnt :) [19:47:05] ISS personal cabin quarter. [19:50:03] you could bring some bigolow expandable habitats with you and have more space that way ;P [19:50:19] nobody talked about that [19:50:24] at least not yet [19:50:54] if you want to build a base you need some cargo for building that anyway. you might as well start by expanding the ship during the travel [19:54:53] That's my fuel making scheme en route. CH2O is carbohydrate. [19:54:53] CH2O + O2 --> CO2 + H2O [19:54:53] CO2 + 4 H2 --> CH4 + 2 H2O [19:54:53] 4 H2O --> 4 H2 + 2 O2 [19:54:53] CH2O + H2O --> CH4 + O2 (total) [19:56:50] So we carry food and water and it turns to methane and LOX fuel en route. [21:17:29] Yay, a fairing masses more than adapter+nosecone, but it has less drag and can nicely fit some payload and get to space with the flea, too :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot258.png [21:22:51] I can even omit the fins, cause the fairing stabilises. [21:27:20] 77.7 km with okto, thermometer, battery and antenna: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot259.png